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National Defense Authorization Act
10 December 2011
6.02pm
seaglass eyes sunny smile
The Kingdom of Marigold
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Kedame, I agree. This totally goes against the Constitution.

Sun king, I for one am not just gonna sit down and complain. I'm not old enough to vote yet, but I've campaigned for candidates and I plan to go to DC voting rights marches in the future. There are hundreds of thousands of people living in my city, and none of us have a vote in Congress. I want to change that. I agree with you that there aren't enough people who are trying to "fix it"

"Now and then, though, someone does begin to grow differently. Instead of down, his feet grow up toward the sky. But we do our best to discourage awkward things like that." "What happens to them?" insisted Milo. "Oddly enough, they often grow ten times the size of everyone else," said Alec thoughtfully, "and I’ve heard that they walk among the stars." –The Phantom Tollbooth
10 December 2011
11.01pm
meanmistermustard
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Here's a report on a prison who has been held for 7 years in the uk yet never been put on trial. The BBC requested an interview but it was refused. There is an ongoing legal fight regarding his extradition to the US to face charges relating to terrorism, which Babar Ahmad has always denied.

 

One of the issues i have with politicians over here in the UK is that there is so much blame thrown around, 'its because of labour/conservations/liberals (delete as appropriate) that this has happened', yet no actual talk about how to tackle it. And the amount of back-tracking and spin is rediculous. Im not naive and expecting 100% straight talking honesty as thats simply not going to happen but the least they can do is stick to their principles and let their pledges hold for more than 5 minutes.

I would like to stress tho that there are politicians who are determined to stick to their beliefs, fight for what they stand for, and be a voice  for the people they represent.

 

It will be interesting to see how the Liberal Democrats do at the next General Election as they suffered badly at the local elections after been seen to sell out nearly everything they stood after joining a coalition with the Conservatives.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
11 December 2011
1.27am
The Walrus
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GniknuS said:

The Walrus said:

I think it is highly likely that the US Government will once again place large amounts of explosive in four buildings, three of which are pretty much public buildings, without being noticed, somehow make four aeroplanes and their passengers disappear forever, create the illusion of aeroplanes flying into WTC 1 and 2 or else get thousands of people to claim they saw aeroplanes hit those buildings, doctor hundreds of hours of video footage showing planes hitting WTC 1 and 2 and the Pentagon, then detonate the explosives, killing hundreds of people and terrorising millions, then wage an expensive and futile war after convincing Muslim groups who are known to hate America to claim responsibility, just so they can detain citizens without trial.

Didn't your mother teach you that if you have nothing nice to say, just don't say anything? Here's what you're saying you agree with if you believe the official story of 9/11.

[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98?fs=1%27feature=oembed

I think it is nice point out how ridiculous any and all claims that the US government were somehow directly responsible for 9/11 are. It stops you looking like a fool in front of people who don't know better.

And I neeeeeeeeed her all the time
11 December 2011
1.32am
unknown
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I don't get why people are getting so mad over this, I really doubt it's going to go anywhere..

All living things must abide by the laws of the shape they inhabit
11 December 2011
3.04am
kedame
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unknown said:

I don't get why people are getting so mad over this, I really doubt it's going to go anywhere..

It already has went somewhere...it passed the Senate, and a provision to block the portion of the bill that is troublesome was voted down. It goes to the House again next, and then to the President if it passes there. There is a real chance it will go somewhere, which is why I am angry. The fact that so many congressmen think it is a necessary provision in and of itself pisses me off. It's a principle thing. It should never have been proposed in the first place.

"You can manicure a cat but can you caticure a man?" John Lennon- Skywriting by Word of Mouth
12 December 2011
2.02am
GniknuS
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Listen, Walrus, it's fine that you haven't done any legitimate research into 9/11 and are just basing this off of your beliefs, it's no big deal because you are in the majority. But please don't call me a fool because I have spent an enormous amount of time researching what happened and so I don't take it lightly. I would love for you to go investigate the insider trading that occurred before and on the day itself and the $750 million of gold and silver that was in the process of being stolen from the basement of the World Trade Center before they collapsed that morning and explain it away. It's pretty simple too, just go to historycommons.org and read the complete 9/11 Timeline and you'll have all the information you could possibly want and more from a non-conspiratorial website.
Here's an easy and quite relevant one, Christine Todd Whitman was the administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency and she repeatedly made the claim that the air was safe to breath despite a recorded reading that there was a 4.5 percent level of asbestos in the area. Whitman claimed that the asbetos level was less than one percent, so she lied, it's a simple as that. Asbestos is a cancer causing fiber btw. Now thousands of first responders are dying or are terminally ill because of her negligence, but of course she hasn't been held accountable for her flat out lie. Clearly this goverment agency did not have the interests of the people at heart.
I'm not going to push the subject but I'm also not going to hesitate to encourage people to research the event for themselves. It has absolutely everything to do with what they are trying to pass now.
On to the topic of politics, nothing will change because change is not profitable and the corporations and politicians running this place don't really care about the people. Avoid cognitive dissonance and things will be okay.

I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
12 December 2011
3.37am
mr. Sun king coming together
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Look, I get that 9/11 is touchy. But we need to make sure we don't go to insane here. I believe (and no, I haven't done exhaustive research) that Bush knew about something, and said, "Ha, it's bullshit." I also believe that certain people heard, and tried to make precautions. But I don't believe the government either a) knowingly mislead the American People (including that EPA person) or that b) Bush ordered the buildings downed. And, btw, Asbestos isn't a cancer causing fiber on its own. That's a distinction that here is useless, but still. And, also, if you want anything done in this country, make sure you elect members that represent the people. There was an interview with Obama tonight, where his statement about getting special interests out of Washington was mentioned, and he was asked if he over promised and under rated the difficulties of Washington. What he responded was that change was never going to be immediate. "It'll take more then one term, heck, it'll probably take more then one president." So he hasn't failed on change - people expected what no one can deliver. So change isn't bad - just give it time.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
12 December 2011
11.29pm
The Walrus
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GniknuS said:

Listen, Walrus, it's fine that you haven't done any legitimate research into 9/11 and are just basing this off of your beliefs, it's no big deal because you are in the majority. But please don't call me a fool because I have spent an enormous amount of time researching what happened and so I don't take it lightly.

I didn't actually say you were a fool, I said you were making yourself look like one and that it might lead to people who don't know that you aren't a fool thinking that you are one.

I have looked at a lot of the conspiracies about 9/11, unfortunately most of them are obvious rubbish which kinda discredits the remainder.

What you said about Whitman worried me. Some Googling showed me that she only said the air was safe to breathe on the 18th of September, which eased my concerns that she was telling firefighters and ambulance staff that the air was safe to breathe. I found this article: http://www.seattlepi.com/natio.....122465.php

which worries me, because it says that the government were omitting safety data from the reports.

There are two possible conclusions, the one in the article (the White House did not want to cause panic) and the one you seem to be hinting at (the government wanted people to breathe polluted air for some nefarious means).

If you're including traders making deals you consider suspicious, pilots performing complicated manouvers to crash aeroplanes and kill themselves, members of the EPA... it's like the Earth being flat, you'd have to pay off everyone who has ever travelled to the poles, anyone who has ever been to space or launched a satelitte. There are too many people involved for any attempt by the US government to pull the whole thing off to have worked, and there's still no motivation for Bush. Aside from invading Afghanistan, which he was going to do anyway, but that was hardly a great career move.

And I neeeeeeeeed her all the time
13 December 2011
2.34am
kedame
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mr. Sun king coming together said:

Look, I get that 9/11 is touchy. But we need to make sure we don't go to insane here. I believe (and no, I haven't done exhaustive research) that Bush knew about something, and said, "Ha, it's bullshit." I also believe that certain people heard, and tried to make precautions. But I don't believe the government either a) knowingly mislead the American People (including that EPA person) or that b) Bush ordered the buildings downed. And, btw, Asbestos isn't a cancer causing fiber on its own. That's a distinction that here is useless, but still. And, also, if you want anything done in this country, make sure you elect members that represent the people. There was an interview with Obama tonight, where his statement about getting special interests out of Washington was mentioned, and he was asked if he over promised and under rated the difficulties of Washington. What he responded was that change was never going to be immediate. "It'll take more then one term, heck, it'll probably take more then one president." So he hasn't failed on change - people expected what no one can deliver. So change isn't bad - just give it time.

Excellent post, my friend. You're pretty insightful for someone so young.  

"You can manicure a cat but can you caticure a man?" John Lennon- Skywriting by Word of Mouth
13 December 2011
2.56am
mr. Sun king coming together
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Thanks. And, because everyone loves challenging laws in court, I have zero doubt that someone'll challenge the law as a circumvention of the ___ (insert number here) Amendment. If so many people challenged "Obamacare" (oh, how I hate that name), then someone'll sure as hell challenge this. At least our idiots are that close to power in Canada.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
18 December 2011
2.19am
GniknuS
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A number of good questions have been raised and I believe I can provide some answers. Sun King said that we shouldn't try to go insane here but that doesn't mean we shouldn't research the event. The points you guys have made are valid, that it would take an awful lot for whoever to pull this off, and my counter to that would be that this is exactly what whoever pulled the event off wants you to think so you don't really look into it.
To the point about Whitman, you have to consider that Wall Street was right around the corner from the WTC complex so her claims about the air were most likely to open Wall Street back up. And the point isn't that she said the air was safe to breath on the 18th, it's that she knowingly did not say that the air was unsafe to breath when she got the data. There is no way that including the information about asbestos is useless because both buildings were covered with asbestos fireproofing. And asbestos certainly wasn't the only toxic material in the air, and yet the common workers were allowed to wear paper masks while those in government roles wore hazmat suits.
Never did I claim Bush was responsible as it's a pretty childish claim. Bush benefited tremendously from 9/11 as did Cheney and all of the defense contractors and arms industries and so on. It's not necessarily politically, but financially especially Halliburton where Cheney was the former CEO and still had a huge stake in that company.
Maybe the lie is too great to have been pulled off, but that doesn't mean that it needn't be investigated. The simple reality is that there were huge amounts of money being made from the stocks of American and United Airlines, Boeing and almost every financial institution located within those towers whose stock plummeted. That's not conspiracy, Dan Rather reported it on the CBS news. The "conspiracy theorists" who started the 9/11 truth movement were family members of the victims and this is simply because they have had the most reason to look into the events. All I'm saying is that in order to truly progress anywhere politically, we need to replace 'I believe' or 'I don't belueve' statements with 'I know because I've investigated' statements. Otherwise you're just being led by other people's beliefs and those people may not have your best interests at heart.

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