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National Defense Authorization Act
7 December 2011
11.32pm
kedame
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I hate to bring politics into such a lovely place, but I feel this extremely important.

Read this: http://www.forbes.com/sites/er…..cans-face/

Outrageous, isn't it? How could anyone think this is a good idea? It goes against the basic principles the United States was founded on. I urge all of you who are American citizens to go here:

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/veto-national-defense-authorization-act-2012-several-provisions-bill-pose-threat-civil-liberties/GLfhBn6D?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl

and create an account to sign the petition to veto this bill. I then urge you to please post it to your facebook walls and tell others about it. Most major news outlets are not covering this story when it should be all they are talking about.

This bill actually scares the hell out of me, and I think if it is signed into law, we are one step closer to being a military controlled state (as if it weren't nearly so already).a-hard-days-night-ringo-15

"You can manicure a cat but can you caticure a man?" John Lennon- Skywriting by Word of Mouth
8 December 2011
12.05am
GniknuS
Rain? I don't mind
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It's a very difficult line to walk here, but I'll give my opinion even if it seems outlandish. I would advise you to investigate the Patriot Acts 1 and 2 which were brought into existence by Bush and expanded by Obama. Basically what they say is that any citizen that is suspected of being a terrorist can be detained for up to 30 days without probable cause. So this new law would just say that you would have no trial. The Patriot Act was written before 9/11 and then 9/11 was the reason it was brought into existence, and I fear as though some new terrorist act will bring this into existence. Who the real terrorists are is up for debate, but you have to ask yourself if it's really just a coincidence that the plans for some new law are already made up and then some event just happens to occur which causes the already written law to be made necessary.

So in short I would say investigate 9/11, just go to youtube and type in WTC 7 and see if it makes sense to you. I honestly don't think it matters if we sign that petition because these people clearly don't give a shit about our opinions. If the powers that be want it to be passed, it will be passed. And the world will just keep spinning.

I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
8 December 2011
12.19am
The Walrus
Working for the national health
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I think it is highly likely that the US Government will once again place large amounts of explosive in four buildings, three of which are pretty much public buildings, without being noticed, somehow make four aeroplanes and their passengers disappear forever, create the illusion of aeroplanes flying into WTC 1 and 2 or else get thousands of people to claim they saw aeroplanes hit those buildings, doctor hundreds of hours of video footage showing planes hitting WTC 1 and 2 and the Pentagon, then detonate the explosives, killing hundreds of people and terrorising millions, then wage an expensive and futile war after convincing Muslim groups who are known to hate America to claim responsibility, just so they can detain citizens without trial.

And I neeeeeeeeed her all the time
8 December 2011
12.20am
The Walrus
Working for the national health
Apple rooftop
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In all seriousness this Act sucks balls and shouldn't be allowed to go through.

And I neeeeeeeeed her all the time
8 December 2011
1.25am
mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
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How's the House voting? Because this is, as stupid as it sounds, this bill will pass even if Obama vetoes it.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
8 December 2011
2.07am
meanmistermustard
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Seems to me that if this is passed, and my understanding is correct, then the terrorists are winning. Their aim is to destory the West; US, UK etc, and if laws are passed that tear up what their country stood for, and this seems to be one of those ways (Land Of The Free) then their winning. Sometimes thoughts of what could happen do more harm than an actual act.

No doubt there is a threat, a very severe one that should not be taken lightly, but you cant lose hold of what you, or your country, stand for.

But it comes down to if those in power want it passed then it will be passed, no matter what the people they are meant to represent say.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
8 December 2011
3.22am
mr. Sun king coming together
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Oh drop this "politicians do what they will, fuck what we say" attitude. You want to change it? Become the next Preston Manning. And who is Preston Manning? In 1986, he lead a mini revolution away from the then newly elected Progessive Conservative Party of Canada, and the leader, Brian Mulroney creating a "quasi Tea Party", the Reform Party. He did nothing in the party's first election (0 Seats, 2.5% of the vote, Mulroney reelected), but, in 1993, aided by his renegating against his morals, principles, promises, and ideology, Mulroney's party (he retired 3 months before the election, the coward) got two (2) seats, in a 296 seat House. Reform? 52. And do you know why Reform did so well? They were honest. You could think they were the second coming of the devil, but they spoke honestly. And now, the Canadian Prime Minister is one of those 52 members elected on that fateful night of 1993. And, the point of this? Don't complain without a plan. If you honestly believe that this is f*****, then create a party, run for an established party. Do something other then complain. You may be right, you may be wrong – civil liberties isn't my area of expertise. But you could create something. We have smart people here… Why don't we try to fix the problem, not just bitch about it?

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
8 December 2011
1.40pm
minime
Candlestick Park
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I suppose it won't help much if I sign anything? I have always been wary of the USA militaty force and police, but this is just ridiculous. And considering how corrupted the authorities are, anyway, I suspect loads of innocents will be captured. I think…. We (ok, you)should make some manifestation; Singing give peace a change or john sinclair (with slightly modified lyrics) or something? I'm seriously angry now. And I don't even live in the country…

8 December 2011
10.53pm
seaglass eyes sunny smile
The Kingdom of Marigold
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God, this is horrible. I'm ashamed of my government. Obama couldn't possibly sign this though, could he? Mustard, I agree, if this goes into law it's one step closer to the terrorists' goal. I'm signing the petition.

"Now and then, though, someone does begin to grow differently. Instead of down, his feet grow up toward the sky. But we do our best to discourage awkward things like that." "What happens to them?" insisted Milo. "Oddly enough, they often grow ten times the size of everyone else," said Alec thoughtfully, "and I’ve heard that they walk among the stars." –The Phantom Tollbooth
8 December 2011
11.38pm
RedLennon
Whitewater WI
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I really dont think the government gives two shits about the American citizens.  As long as they are getting money they are going to keep doing what they are doing.  American politics is a big club and us normal folk arent invited.  You can sign and sign away but in the end its going to come down to what their interests are. 

 

If anyone can make sense to me why more than half of congress is millionaires and how that is fair I would love to hear it.

9 December 2011
12.40am
GniknuS
Rain? I don't mind
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The Walrus said:

I think it is highly likely that the US Government will once again place large amounts of explosive in four buildings, three of which are pretty much public buildings, without being noticed, somehow make four aeroplanes and their passengers disappear forever, create the illusion of aeroplanes flying into WTC 1 and 2 or else get thousands of people to claim they saw aeroplanes hit those buildings, doctor hundreds of hours of video footage showing planes hitting WTC 1 and 2 and the Pentagon, then detonate the explosives, killing hundreds of people and terrorising millions, then wage an expensive and futile war after convincing Muslim groups who are known to hate America to claim responsibility, just so they can detain citizens without trial.

Didn't your mother teach you that if you have nothing nice to say, just don't say anything? Here's what you're saying you agree with if you believe the official story of 9/11.

[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98?fs=1'feature=oembed

I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
9 December 2011
2.28am
Vale
Neverland
Paris Olympia
Forum Posts: 140
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15 October 2011
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RedLennon said:

I really dont think the government gives two shits about the American citizens.  As long as they are getting money they are going to keep doing what they are doing.  American politics is a big club and us normal folk arent invited.  You can sign and sign away but in the end its going to come down to what their interests are. 

I think, that in this world. Lots of people will do everything, including the most horrible things ever done, "as long as they are getting money" and they won't care what (we) the people say. Maybe they never did.

 

RedLennon said:

If anyone can make sense to me why more than half of congress is millionaires and how that is fair I would love to hear it.

 If I'm translating that correctly, I totally agree.

This is la la la la love! – George Harrisonheart Please! Tell me what you think! and I hope you won't  laugh haha. http://soulandeyes.tumblr.com/ "Que en el planeta tanto ande mal; Que el hombre agreda al hombre, que el hombre agreda al animal, al vegetal."
9 December 2011
3.27am
mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
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If you hate this so much, FIX IT. I can't believe what I'm reading. Americans, the youth, are disenfranchised, and yet they just say "oh well". If the system is f***ed up, FIX IT. Run for councillor, or State rep, or Congressman. Do something. Instead of saying this is screwed, do something. Do you think you'd be Americans right now if George Washington just said, "Oh, the British are asses, but I'm too lazy to complain."? Of course not. The Tea Party, for all the things about it, shows they care. Same with Occupy. Stop complaining and start fixing. Things happen when people say "I'll be the change I want."

Oh, and RedLennon, how many current members of Congress were millionaires BEFORE they entered politics? The pay for a Congressman? $132 000 (or something very similar). If you're in a safe seat, win 4 elections and you get a million dollars easy. Look, if you care so much, join a movement. Run for something. You never know; I could be typing this at a future President. After all, Stephen Harper was just a disillusioned man who joined Reform. Guess what? He can now do whatever the hell he wants in Ottawa. Or look at Jack Layton. City Councillor for 25 years, then 8 years at the head of the NDP, including a brief moment as Leader of the Opposition. Sadly, he died of cancer on August 22nd. Look, you can be the change you want to see – if you care enough to do it.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
9 December 2011
4.21am
kedame
Miles above you
Candlestick Park
Forum Posts: 531
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23 January 2011
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mr. Sun king coming together said:

If you hate this so much, FIX IT. I can't believe what I'm reading. Americans, the youth, are disenfranchised, and yet they just say "oh well". If the system is f***ed up, FIX IT. Run for councillor, or State rep, or Congressman. Do something. Instead of saying this is screwed, do something. Do you think you'd be Americans right now if George Washington just said, "Oh, the British are asses, but I'm too lazy to complain."? Of course not. The Tea Party, for all the things about it, shows they care. Same with Occupy. Stop complaining and start fixing. Things happen when people say "I'll be the change I want."

Oh, and RedLennon, how many current members of Congress were millionaires BEFORE they entered politics? The pay for a Congressman? $132 000 (or something very similar). If you're in a safe seat, win 4 elections and you get a million dollars easy. Look, if you care so much, join a movement. Run for something. You never know; I could be typing this at a future President. After all, Stephen Harper was just a disillusioned man who joined Reform. Guess what? He can now do whatever the hell he wants in Ottawa. Or look at Jack Layton. City Councillor for 25 years, then 8 years at the head of the NDP, including a brief moment as Leader of the Opposition. Sadly, he died of cancer on August 22nd. Look, you can be the change you want to see – if you care enough to do it.

It's easy to say just fix it, SunKing, but there is a little more to it than that. Petitioning is supposed to be a way to get your voice heard. That is doing something. Complaining, as weird as it sounds, sometimes works. Voicing displeasure over this bill might be heard; therefore, if talking helps, do it. It's naive to think that just running for office will fix anything. Every American citizen doesn't have to run for office in order to affect change. That's why we vote, protest, and petition. It's worked okay until now, and I hope it keeps working. By doing these things, we are doing something. I want to be a doctor…not a politician. Does that mean I shouldn't voice my displeasure with the way things are going? No. Bringing attention to the bill does far more than me running for office because I know fuck all about being a national leader. I do know this bill takes the cake, though, and I am angry about that. I'm doing my part by voicing my concern. I hope others will do the same. Maybe someone will hear us.

"You can manicure a cat but can you caticure a man?" John Lennon- Skywriting by Word of Mouth
9 December 2011
10.43am
meanmistermustard
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Vale:) said:

RedLennon said:

I really dont think the government gives two shits about the American citizens.  As long as they are getting money they are going to keep doing what they are doing.  American politics is a big club and us normal folk arent invited.  You can sign and sign away but in the end its going to come down to what their interests are. 

I think, that in this world. Lots of people will do everything, including the most horrible things ever done, "as long as they are getting money" and they won't care what (we) the people say. Maybe they never did.

Personally i dont believe that poiticians become politicians for the money, i think they do want to make a difference and stand for what they believe. However power and money affects people as does having more established people pressurise you to follow long followed and held customs. Some remain untained by it all and stand by their morals. One of the things that annoys me is the politicians who oppose changes to bills, laws being passed etc yet abstain from voting so not to rock the party line.

Whatever happens if you have the right to vote then you should, otherwise shut up about what happened (unless of course you dont have the freedom to vote due to an oppressive regime (is that the right word?)).

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
9 December 2011
10.40pm
Vale
Neverland
Paris Olympia
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15 October 2011
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a-hard-days-night-paul-6 Well yeah, not at first because they can't touch the power yet and like you say, at first they want to help but when they start getting money, well, it's tempting and not everyone can control their desires.

 

meanmistermustard said:

Whatever happens if you have the right to vote then you should, otherwise shut up about what happened (unless of course you dont have the freedom to vote due to an oppressive regime (is that the right word?)).

My mom says that an opressive regime is when you can vote, but not in the way you want to or think to, but to vote in the way that the rulers want. In less words not democratically. Or something like that… a-hard-days-night-paul-2

This is la la la la love! – George Harrisonheart Please! Tell me what you think! and I hope you won't  laugh haha. http://soulandeyes.tumblr.com/ "Que en el planeta tanto ande mal; Que el hombre agreda al hombre, que el hombre agreda al animal, al vegetal."
9 December 2011
10.45pm
RedLennon
Whitewater WI
Ed Sullivan Show
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mr. Sun king coming together said:

If you hate this so much, FIX IT. I can't believe what I'm reading. Americans, the youth, are disenfranchised, and yet they just say "oh well". If the system is f***ed up, FIX IT. Run for councillor, or State rep, or Congressman. Do something. Instead of saying this is screwed, do something. Do you think you'd be Americans right now if George Washington just said, "Oh, the British are asses, but I'm too lazy to complain."? Of course not. The Tea Party, for all the things about it, shows they care. Same with Occupy. Stop complaining and start fixing. Things happen when people say "I'll be the change I want."

Oh, and RedLennon, how many current members of Congress were millionaires BEFORE they entered politics? The pay for a Congressman? $132 000 (or something very similar). If you're in a safe seat, win 4 elections and you get a million dollars easy. Look, if you care so much, join a movement. Run for something. You never know; I could be typing this at a future President. After all, Stephen Harper was just a disillusioned man who joined Reform. Guess what? He can now do whatever the hell he wants in Ottawa. Or look at Jack Layton. City Councillor for 25 years, then 8 years at the head of the NDP, including a brief moment as Leader of the Opposition. Sadly, he died of cancer on August 22nd. Look, you can be the change you want to see – if you care enough to do it.

My (100% non violent) legal record prevents me from doing these types of thing.  I cant vote.  If I follow my dreams I wont even be living in America in 2 years, so I really dont care enough to do it.  

10 December 2011
3.21am
mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
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Kedame, you were SO not the person I meant to take my post personally. Honestly, it was a broad statement T the people who complain, but never do anything but sit on their couch and complain. But, (and this is to everyone) why do you spit out the word politician with such disguist? Politicians, for better or for worse, are representatives of the people. And honestly, I sometimes agree with the saying you get the politics you deserve. But, looking at this crazy Washington DC, what did the American People do to deserve this? That's the question I want to know. How the he'll did Americans get stuck with a horrible unstable government? How?

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
10 December 2011
4.39am
RedLennon
Whitewater WI
Ed Sullivan Show
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mr. Sun king coming together said:

Kedame, you were SO not the person I meant to take my post personally. Honestly, it was a broad statement T the people who complain, but never do anything but sit on their couch and complain. But, (and this is to everyone) why do you spit out the word politician with such disguist? Politicians, for better or for worse, are representatives of the people. And honestly, I sometimes agree with the saying you get the politics you deserve. But, looking at this crazy Washington DC, what did the American People do to deserve this? That's the question I want to know. How the he'll did Americans get stuck with a horrible unstable government? How?

We Didn't give peace a chancea-hard-days-night-john-6 

10 December 2011
4.41am
kedame
Miles above you
Candlestick Park
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23 January 2011
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I don't hate politicians. I actually used to LOVE politics. I remember watching returns for the 2008 primaries giddy with excitement. (I was so hoping Hilary would win! I love the Clintons.) I think, however, as you get a little older, you see that nothing ever changes. When I was a teenager, politics seemed like fun. It was exciting because it was new to me. Now, however, that this is the fourth election that I am paying close attention to, I see the same shit over and over again. They all say the same things, and nothing ever gets done.

In American politics, it's all about talking points. Republicans talk about abortion and gay people. As if the president could do much to turn over Roe v. Wade, anyway? Why should that matter to the executive branch? It's a judicial matter that the president can't control unless he gets the exciting proposition of replacing everyone on the Supreme Court (which Bush nearly got to do…did he make 2  appointments or 3? Can't remember…Roberts, Alito…). They like to talk about their religion, as if that has anything to do with whether or not you are a good leader, unless you use your religion to make decisions that oppress others…which people like Rick Perry have no problems with. As long as Christianity is the only religion ever mentioned, he has no problems with shoving religion down everyone's throats. They never talk about serious issues that affect us. When they do, they talk around them.

Democrats, at least, seem mostly intelligent. They try to focus on important matters and then are called elitist. They are good at making plans and talking about them. They, however, when they get into office, they don't carry those plans out because they can't stand up to Republicans. They compromise without Conservatives having to give up anything. They are spineless, but I still vote for them. It's better than the alternative. I like the saying that Democrats don't need opponents. They are good at beating themselves.

Sometimes it feels like a hopeless situation. Republicans try to make us live in a world of terror, where everything spells out Doomsday…except for the things that actually might spell out Doomsday (climate change, lack of proper health care, no regulation on huge corporations, a military that is so huge I am actually starting to be afraid if this bill passes). They warn about the end of times because gay people can serve in the military, because kids aren't forced by their teachers to say a prayer every morning, or because we are *le gasp* forbidden to say Merry Christmas. It's bullshit. Plain and simple. Republicans don't want these issues to go away. They don't want to overturn Roe v. Wade. There would be nothing to talk about then. They don't want gays to get married, not because it ruins the sanctity of marriage (check out all the types of marriage in the Bible…man to woman and her slave, male slave to a submissive female slave, female to her husband's brother, man to woman and multiple concubines, etc.), but because it gives them something to run against. It's insane and not something our government should even be worrying about. They need to worry about the economy, foreign relations, jobs, Health Care, education, and the environment. Meanwhile, Perry wants to get rid of the Dept. of Education, Dept. of Commerce, and the EPA! Three areas we need to work on the most, and he wants to cut them?!?!?! Maybe an overhaul would be a good idea, but to completely cut those agencies is not a solution. He would never hear of cutting the Dept. of Homeland Security, even though we have about a million security agencies in place already that can't even communicate with each other long enough to warn of terrorist attacks. What good is one more agency?

It's people like him that make me lose faith in politicians. He's stupid…maybe even worse than Bush because Bush at least seems to be a likable person. He isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, and he surrounded himself with crook that led him around by the nose. There's something endearing about him, and he could have been a good president if he wasn't so damn stupid. He let those around him have too much power because he didn't know what to do with it when he got it. President Obama…well, he's smart. Problem is, he can't get anything done because of Congress. And he also has backed down on some pretty important issues that he promised to address…Guantanamo Bay is still open, he has approved more drilling in Alaska. He has, however, as a supposedly weak-willed Democrat, been the Commander-in-Chief during the capture/deaths of some of the world's most wanted terrorists. Seems odd, huh? And now, they want to treat American citizens as prisoners of our own nation? For those who think this isn't serious, you need to think about it for a minute. This goes directly against everything our Constitution stands for! It is ILLEGAL to detain citizens (should be anyone, not just citizens, in my opinion) without a fair trial. It is appalling to me that no one is talking about it! I bet I sound crazy, but this bill really scares me. I can't stomach the thought of our nation turning into a place of fear, but I feel helpless to do anything about it!

"You can manicure a cat but can you caticure a man?" John Lennon- Skywriting by Word of Mouth
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