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Led Zeppelin
24 August 2010
10.25pm
MrBig
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Von Bontee said:

Led Zep were to the '70s what the Beatles were to the '60s: The absolute kings. 


The Who would like to have a word with you.
"The best band? The Beatles. The most overrated band? The Beatles."
24 August 2010
10.48pm
Von Bontee
A Hole In The Road
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You mean "The Who" as in that band that released a grand total of four studio albums - only two of which were among their best - through that entire decade? That one?

Actually I quite like The Who, and I've owned a dozen-or-so of their albums over the years. But with their best stuff split between two decades, there's no way they could come close to being dominant in either one.

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!" -- Paul McCartney
24 August 2010
10.58pm
Marcelo
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Von Bontee said:

Led Zep were to the '70s what the Beatles were to the '60s: The absolute kings.  (...)

I don't think Nick Mason's as distinctive a drummer as Ringo - in fact, between him and Roger Waters' plodding bass, I've always felt that Pink Floyd had the single most unremarkable rhythm sections of any prog-identified band. But "Dark Side..." is so beautifully recorded that I can appreciate the sheer sound of those drums making for a pleasurable listening experience.


I tend to think that '70s belonged to Rolling Stones. They aren't my favourite band at all, but I like their work in that decade better than Led Zeppelin's.

OT: I think that Pink Floyd wasn't a real prog-rock band. Even if they made some awesomely crazy records, most of their work orbit around blues. And in my opinion, Waters isn't a good musician, his strong point is lyrics.

I'd like to say "thank you" on behalf of the group and ourselves and I hope we passed the audition. John Lennon
25 August 2010
1.05am
Celebrated_Mr_K
Ed Sullivan Show
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Led Zeppelin was great.  The Stones were greater.  Why?  Superior songwriting.

John Bonham was good.  Ringo Starr was better.  And Keith Moon was way out in front..."I Can See for Miles" is proof.

Neil Peart played for Rush.  The less said, the better.

I love Pink Floyd, but the drumming has never stood out to me.

Who was the best drummer you've never heard of, you ask?  Easy.  Mick Waller. The drumming from start to finish on Rod Stewart's Every Picture Tells a Story is simply inspired.

What separates a good drummer from a great drummer?  Style.  I can't really say that John Bonham sounded different from other drummers.  He thrashed away and played for a rocking band.  

Ringo, on the other hand, had a distinctive sound (partly because he was a lefty playing a right-handed kit).  And Keith was anarchy on the drums...anarchy with style.

Worst drummer?  Take your pick from any '80s hair band.  Those clowns had no clue that drums are actually an instrument.

25 August 2010
1.11am
MrBig
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Celebrated_Mr_K said:

Led Zeppelin was great.  The Stones were greater.  Why?  Superior songwriting.

John Bonham was good.  Ringo Starr was better.  And Keith Moon was way out in front..."I Can See for Miles" is proof.

Neil Peart played for Rush.  The less said, the better.

I love Pink Floyd, but the drumming has never stood out to me.

Who was the best drummer you've never heard of, you ask?  Easy.  Mick Waller. The drumming from start to finish on Rod Stewart's Every Picture Tells a Story is simply inspired.

What separates a good drummer from a great drummer?  Style.  I can't really say that John Bonham sounded different from other drummers.  He thrashed away and played for a rocking band.  

Ringo, on the other hand, had a distinctive sound (partly because he was a lefty playing a right-handed kit).  And Keith was anarchy on the drums...anarchy with style.

Worst drummer?  Take your pick from any '80s hair band.  Those clowns had no clue that drums are actually an instrument.


Alex Van Halen was a great drummer.
"The best band? The Beatles. The most overrated band? The Beatles."
25 August 2010
1.54am
GniknuS
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Celebrated_Mr_K said:

Led Zeppelin was great.  The Stones were greater.  Why?  Superior songwriting.

John Bonham was good.  Ringo Starr was better.  And Keith Moon was way out in front..."I Can See for Miles" is proof.

Neil Peart played for Rush.  The less said, the better.

I love Pink Floyd, but the drumming has never stood out to me.

Who was the best drummer you've never heard of, you ask?  Easy.  Mick Waller. The drumming from start to finish on Rod Stewart's Every Picture Tells a Story is simply inspired.

What separates a good drummer from a great drummer?  Style.  I can't really say that John Bonham sounded different from other drummers.  He thrashed away and played for a rocking band.  

Ringo, on the other hand, had a distinctive sound (partly because he was a lefty playing a right-handed kit).  And Keith was anarchy on the drums...anarchy with style.

Worst drummer?  Take your pick from any '80s hair band.  Those clowns had no clue that drums are actually an instrument.


Best drummer is all opinion, my personal favorite drummer is Zigaboo Modeliste from the funk band the Meters, but you won't see him on any "top 100" lists. I can't believe no one has mentioned Ginger Baker from Cream yet, he's up there with Moon and Bonham. Also Stewart Copeland from the Police is a pretty incredible drummer.
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25 August 2010
11.07am
Joe
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As I was reading this I was thinking of Steward Copeland. I don't much like The Police (mainly because I can't abide Sting), but every time I hear their records I'm always struck by how creative the drumming was.

Talking of drummers (and going even further off-topic!), Questlove from The Roots left a comment on my Across The Universe article a while ago, under his real name. That was pretty cool.

EDIT at least I think it was him. Wikipedia has his name spelt Ahmir, not Amir. He left a valid email address and linked to his official Twitter account, so I presumed it was genuine.

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25 August 2010
4.19pm
robert
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The very fact that the "greatness" of any band starts off with comparing them to the Beatles is in itself testimony to the singular greatness of the Fab Four.

Comparing Zep to the Who or the Stones is all well in good - but eventually it is how they stand up against the Beatles that is the ultimate test.

None of them even come close. This isn't just opinion it is in many ways socialogical fact.

Consider just Beatles Love in Vegas - I don't imagine we'll be seeing a show - and it's a quality show I've seen it myself - based on the Who or the Stones etc. All of them great bands nonetheless.

I once saw a musicologist explain the long term impact of the Beatles this way (paraphrasing) "The Beatles songs in 100 years will be part of musical folklore. Their most memorable songs will be of the cultural status of something like 'She'll be coming 'round the mountain' - in that every child will know the songs - people might not know a hundred years from now who wrote them - the songs will simply seem to have always existed."

I don't know who will be singing Van Halen's Jump 100 years from now.

Just my thoughts

"She looks more like him than I do."
25 August 2010
6.00pm
vonbontee
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GniknuS said:

Celebrated_Mr_K said:

Neil Peart played for Rush.  The less said, the better.

 

Who was the best drummer you've never heard of, you ask?  Easy.  Mick Waller. The drumming from start to finish on Rod Stewart's Every Picture Tells a Story is simply inspired.


Best drummer is all opinion, my personal favorite drummer is Zigaboo Modeliste from the funk band the Meters, but you won't see him on any "top 100" lists.

 

Okay...

A)  Rush ROCKED, dude!  (At least for their first decade, after which I quit paying attention.) And even if they sucked (which they probably do, at this late date) that fact wouldn't diminish Peart's skills any.

B) Of course I've heard of Micky Waller! Those early Rod Stewart (and Jeff Beck Group) albums are all fab.

C) Ziggy made the "Top 25 Drummers" entry in my old Book of Rock Lists! And I'd bet he's made a lot of other peoples' lists besides (and deservedly so.)

I just want to play. I’d like to think I could work opposite Sinatra, B.B. King, the Beatles, or a polka band... - Jazz musician Rahsaan Roland Kirk, 1967
26 August 2010
1.13am
Celebrated_Mr_K
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Rush rocked...badly.  Sorry, I acknowledge Peart's brilliance as a drummer, but his drumming was all that band really had going for it.  When you take overwrought, pretentious songwriting and put it in the hands of a guy like Geddy Lee that could shriek like a rat with his testicles caught in a vise, but couldn't actually sing with real emotion or even creative phrasing, it comes out as an unlistenable mess.

But that's just my opinion.

I did actually think of Ginger Baker and Stuart Copeland.  Copeland is absolutely brilliant.  As I said earlier, great drummers are the ones that play with a style that signifies them.  Copeland once described himself more as a "rhythmatist" than a drummer and I think that sums it up well. 

I was listening to early Elvis Costello this morning.  His drummer, Pete Thomas, was another fantastic drummer with a big, bold style all his own.

26 August 2010
5.28pm
vonbontee
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Well, i've found that Rush tends to polarize sensible people - some people can endure periodic displays of overwrought shrieking pompousness, or even embrace it for its own sake.

Copeland was pretty great, yeah (his own solo projects were certainly more fun than Sting's), and those albums with the Attractions are the ONLY Elvis C. albums for me. But Ginger Baker...I dunno, he's gotta be the greatest drummer I've never liked. That busy, lumbering style on those Cream records never sounded swinging or funky enough for my taste. I would've preferred someone like Keith Moon or Mitch Mitchell instead. Or maybe I just don't like the way his kit was recorded. Who knows...

I just want to play. I’d like to think I could work opposite Sinatra, B.B. King, the Beatles, or a polka band... - Jazz musician Rahsaan Roland Kirk, 1967
27 August 2010
12.11am
Celebrated_Mr_K
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Interestingly, although Keith was a vital part of the Who sound, Pete Townshend said after Keith's death that the band would now be able to move in different directions musically. 

5 September 2010
6.08am
A Fiendish Thingy
By the banks of her own lagoon
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Zeppelin is the reason I haven't been on here that much lately. The phase is quieting down a little... but it'll probably come back again when my Zeppelin III record comes in the mail. a-hard-days-night-paul-11

My views on what has been discussed:

  • Nick Mason is a great drummer. Roger Waters is a great musician. They're just both kind of drowned out by the combination of all of the instruments together - by just Pink Floyd overall. Watch Live At Pompeii, and focus on each of the members, and you'll see what I mean.
  • Keith Moon is the best drummer ever to grace the earth
  • This thread is about Led Zeppelin. a-hard-days-night-george-7 Only joking, I know how carried away one gets on the forum. I missed it a lot!

Joe, I think you should give the rest of the songs a try. At least the more obscure ones! Every great band has songs that aren't as popular, that are even better than the hits. a-hard-days-night-george-9

I'm in love, but I'm lazy.
5 September 2010
8.07am
vonbontee
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Joe, I think you should give the rest of the songs a try. At least the more obscure ones! Every great band has songs that aren't as popular, that are even better than the hits. a-hard-days-night-george-9


 Indeed. Zep's "Boxed Set 2" is two discs of awesome. It's all "deep cuts" that have NEVER got much airplay.
I just want to play. I’d like to think I could work opposite Sinatra, B.B. King, the Beatles, or a polka band... - Jazz musician Rahsaan Roland Kirk, 1967
6 September 2010
10.38am
Joe
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I've had the Remasters double CD set for years. I just don't feel the love for Led Zep.

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6 September 2010
4.51pm
this girl
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I feel sorry for you Joe! a-hard-days-night-ringo-15 LOL. But look at this

And the guy next to him is wearing a Red Rose SPeedway shirt but I don't know who he is a-hard-days-night-paul-11

6 September 2010
5.25pm
this girl
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Sunii saying Mothership is your favorite Led Zeppelin record is like saying 1 is your favorite Beatles album! What about the original albums? a-hard-days-night-george-2

6 September 2010
7.05pm
GniknuS
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Joe said:

I've had the Remasters double CD set for years. I just don't feel the love for Led Zep.


That stuff is mostly hard rock, which I guess is mostly what they were about, but if your interested in hearing some really good acoustic and folk style guitar, check out III. It's the only one that I listen to anymore because the hard rock stuff, and Plant's voice, just really starts to annoy me after a while. It's really a shame that the greatest band of all time had such spectacular singers because I now expect everyone to be as good. Damn you Beatles! a-hard-days-night-john-4a-hard-days-night-paul-9a-hard-days-night-george-9a-hard-days-night-ringo-14
I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
6 September 2010
8.02pm
MrBig
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Joe said:

I've had the Remasters double CD set for years. I just don't feel the love for Led Zep.


this man has not heard The Battle of Evermore
"The best band? The Beatles. The most overrated band? The Beatles."
6 September 2010
8.16pm
A Fiendish Thingy
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UGH, that mandolin. blue-meanie That's some good music there.

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