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9/11 - 10 Years On
11 September 2011
5.58am
oneafter909
The station
Shea Stadium
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a-hard-days-night-ringo-8 It breaks my heart! 

And he was all in for peace... 

Step on the gas and wipe that tear away.
11 September 2011
6.04am
kedame
Miles above you
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I was 12 and in the 6th grade. I didn't even know what the WTC was. I remember my teacher saying something like the Palestinians were bombing us, or something (goes to show how much misinformation was going around early on). I am a little ashamed to this day that I just kind of got sick of hearing about everything happening. As a kid, I just didn't really understand what was going on. To be honest, I still kind of don't. It's hard to imagine the magnitude of something like 9/11 unless you were there, seeing it with your own eyes, or unless you were truly old enough to understand. I haven't ever watched any of the movies or the commemorative stuff about it...I know how it ends. I did watch the news a lot right when it happened, though. I had the idea that I would record everything that happened like a historian, but I didn't get very far. It's weird to think about a time now where 9/11 and wars with the Middle East didn't hang over our heads like a black cloud. I know some people in other countries around the world think it is arrogant of Americans to say the whole  world changed forever on that day when thousands of people die in their countries every year because of war, famine, drought, and natural disasters, but really it is ignorant to deny that it did change the way the whole world behaved, especially directly after it happened.

I wish everyone in the US could be as united as we were in the days after 9/11. Our service men and average, everyday citizens showed an incredible amount of bravery, and now all we can do is argue over whether or not our president was born in the US. And we have to listen to the unintelligent prattle of people like Sarah Palin and Michele Bachman (sp?). I wish we could have all stuck together for longer than a few months.

"You can manicure a cat but can you caticure a man?" John Lennon- Skywriting by Word of Mouth
11 September 2011
9.23am
GniknuS
Rain? I don't mind
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Right, it's really unfortunate that something like 9/11 has to happen for people to come together and value life. And it's even more unfortunate that those who were responsible for so much bravery that day are not being allowed to return to the site just to make room for the politicians in attendence. As long as they get a little camera time and pretend to care, maybe they'll get re-elected. Morality seems to be a recurring issue on these threads.

Also, I don't blame Bush because I think that argument is a bit of a cop out, to be honest. There's a clip on youtube of this stock broker who's talking about 9/11 and the subsequent wars, and he has a quote saying "in devestation, there is opportunity." He's referring to the gold prices that went skyrocketing post 9/11 as well as the oil prices, so to him, he and his clients made money. The opportunity was there, and had he not taken it, you can bet your ass that someone else would have.

The same applies with Bush and the Neo-Conservatives, paulsbass I'm not sure if you were referring to the Project for the New American Century when you referred to "a new Pearl Harbor", but perhaps that's a topic for a different time. Clearly, there was a need for the United States to take control of the massive oil supply in the Middle East, so 9/11 was essentially a vehicle used to attain that need. The "obstensible" reasons, or the reasons that justify the wars were to take the power away from the Taliban in Afghanistan and to "bring democracy" to Iraq. Saddam Hussein had absolutely no tie to 9/11, they made up the "certainty" that he had weapons of mass destruction and then proceeded to deny that they made those claims to begin with, and I think you'd just be lying to yourself if you believe elsewise. And the reason that the Taliban exists in the first place is because of the United States and Russia trying to take control of Afghanistan post Cold War. One country would put a power in place there, then the other would form a counter group which led to horrendous civil wars.

It's because these people don't give a shit about you and me, they don't. They don't care about blowing an entire city like Baghdad and all of its people to smithereens, they don't care about the soldiers who die fighting for their country. They are complete sociopaths who do whatever they please for a few years then make up a bunch of lies so people will vote them back into office. The only rational solution is to elect no one, Ron Paul isn't the answer just like Barack Obama wasn't. Obama has only expanded the Patriot Acts, so I don't believe for a second that he's "different than Bush." He's the same damn guy just black.

What Bush did is no different from what any other politician would have done. They took advantage of the opportunity presented to them, just go look up the growth of the company Halliburton after the wars began. Of course Dick Cheney was the former CEO of Halliburton, and do you really think that Dick Cheney didn't have huge amounts of money invested in that company? So wouldn't Dick Cheney's view of the war be just a little bit slanted knowing that his former company was making grotesquely large profits from the war?

Back to 9/11, the crooked politicians should not take away from what is really important, and that is the victims and their families. The best way to honor those lost is to do an honest investigation for yourself to find out what really happened that day. The 9/11 Commission Report did nothing but prevent the Clinton and Bush administrations from taking any part of the blame and then they basically scared us into accepting their wars by propogating fear. "There are a lot of people who lie and get away with it", Rumsfeld couldn't have said it better.

I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
11 September 2011
11.05am
kelicopter
Sitting in an English Garden
Shea Stadium
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I was 7 at at a friend's house. Her mum got a phone call, turned the TV onto the news and started crying. I remember really vividly the image of bodies falling from the windows. I think that is what upsets me more than anything, that these innocent people were in such a desperate situation that they thought their last chance at survival was a 200 ft drop. It doesn't bear thinking about.

I think the majority of my opinion has been formed from watching programmes since; learning about the brave fire and police crews and the families of the victims, and hearing the final phone calls and messages left by people in the tower. I know it definitely has had a lasting effect on me, despite my being young and living thousands of miles away. 

I don't know much about the political side of things, but I agree with something that kedame said. This horrific event did make the people of the western world stand united, it's just a shame that that was short lived.

"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
"When I cannot sing my heart, I can only speak my mind."
11 September 2011
1.40pm
mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
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… the same Americans who believed Obama was Egyptian. The West was united behind Bush. And, what does he do? Try to take out his father's enemy in Iraq. There's a reason Canada never went in to Iraq - it was Vietnam all over again. They never learn.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
11 September 2011
2.23pm
meanmistermustard
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It wasnt just Bush, there was also Tony Blair who smiled whilst lying thru his teeth to the British public. He, and many others, should have been convicted for doing so, but they got off. And he became Peace Envoy for the Middle East!!

 

Personally i feel Bush did the right thing in not retaliating immediately after the attacks, he could very easily have struck out in the heat of the moment when emotions, and people, wanted a swift response. Unfortunately further down the line Wars were started in the name of fighting terrorism.

However i dont believe in violence? I dont believe that killing someone ultimately will sort it out. Violence will only ever breed violence. The war on terrorism will never be over because there will be someone, some group, who is ready to hit out. 

But then what is the answer when people are being killed by their own rulers and when countries are being attacked? You cant sit back and talk it over all the time. There isnt 1 definitive answer that covers all situations. But at the same time you cant deceive people and the motives have to be true, justifiable and right.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
11 September 2011
5.04pm
Into the Sky with Diamonds
New York
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Getting back to music, did anyone see "The Love You Make" last night - a documentary on Paul's "Concert for New York City" shortly after 9/11?

I was actually at that concert, and in many ways it was extra-ordinary.

So many super stars!

But Paul's own choice of (four) songs was curious and the reaction of the crowd was understandable (though edited out on the CD).

(For anyone remotely interested, there's more about this at  http://bit.ly/i8ShZV and  http://on.fb.me/jJiC0J )

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)
11 September 2011
5.14pm
The Walrus
Working for the national health
Apple rooftop
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paulsbass said:

The Walrus said:

Is a democratic Iraq a positive? Or an Afghanistan which isn't ruled by the Taliban to the same extent?

Why do you bring up Iraq?

And how is it linked to 9/11??

But since you came up with it: How is Iraq democratic?? The new "administration" is corrupt and still depends on the warlords. Nothing good came from the war for the Iraqis. "You kill my brother and expect me to love you??" It doesn't work like that, never did.

Iraq is linked to 9/11 because there would have been even less support for the invasion if not for 9/11. "Weapons of mass destruction" wouldn't have been such a loaded phrase if the American public didn't think there were people out to get them.

Corruption is not incompatible with democracy. Iraq isn't great now, and the cost of the war probably hasn't been worth it, but at least they have a way of getting rid of politicians now.

As for Afghanistan, the Taliban are much worse off now than they were before. They've fallen back from having total control over more than 90% of Afghanistan to much less. The most recent precise data I could find was from 2009, with NATO having seized about 30% of the country (overwhelmingly in the North) and the Taliban in control of about 20%, with the other 50% or so contested or with the Taliban having a small presence there. The Afghan army is also much more capable of defending the country than it was before.

I didn't/don't like either of the wars, and I don't think we should have invaded either country, but the improvements to life there are something of a silver lining. Just like putting two men on the moon wasn't worth Kennedy's assassination and Laika's death, but the moon landings were something of a silver lining.

And I neeeeeeeeed her all the time
11 September 2011
10.22pm
meanmistermustard
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Have just seen the firefighters story and footage and its so heart wrenching. You want them not to go, to get out, get far away, but you know that they are going in and wouldnt turn away. And they continued going after the second plane hit.

Its horrible watching it, just want to turn over so it didnt happen, that its just another disaster movie, so that nobody really died and you can forget about.

 

And still they are paying the price for their bravery due to the toxic fumes they breathed in.  

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
12 September 2011
3.13am
An unidentified flying cupcake
The Star-Club
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The Walrus said:

I didn't/don't like either of the wars, and I don't think we should have invaded either country, but the improvements to life there are something of a silver lining. Just like putting two men on the moon wasn't worth Kennedy's assassination and Laika's death, but the moon landings were something of a silver lining.

I wasn't planning to get into this thread because I'm not American, and I could be a little biased. But being an Arab, and a close friend to many Iraqis, I can assure you, dear Walrus, that the war didn't bring any improvements to the lives of Iraqis.

 

And I'm not going to debate whether Saddam was a dictator or not - Even if he was, you don't get rid of a dictator by wiping out his people and his country's culture and heritage. What I know is that before the "War on terrorism" and all that jazz, people weren't as scared for their lives as they are now, and Iraqis of different religions and sects (Christians, Sunni, Shia, Kurds and otherwise) didn't hate each other like they do now.

 

I hope I'm not derailing too much, but had to point this out.

 

My heart goes out to all the families of the 9/11 attacks' victims. There's just so much injustice in the world, and this was one side of it!

Do I have to keep on talking till I can't go on!
12 September 2011
6.49pm
GniknuS
Rain? I don't mind
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An unidentified flying cupcake said:

The Walrus said:

I didn't/don't like either of the wars, and I don't think we should have invaded either country, but the improvements to life there are something of a silver lining. Just like putting two men on the moon wasn't worth Kennedy's assassination and Laika's death, but the moon landings were something of a silver lining.

I wasn't planning to get into this thread because I'm not American, and I could be a little biased. But being an Arab, and a close friend to many Iraqis, I can assure you, dear Walrus, that the war didn't bring any improvements to the lives of Iraqis.

 

And I'm not going to debate whether Saddam was a dictator or not - Even if he was, you don't get rid of a dictator by wiping out his people and his country's culture and heritage. What I know is that before the "War on terrorism" and all that jazz, people weren't as scared for their lives as they are now, and Iraqis of different religions and sects (Christians, Sunni, Shia, Kurds and otherwise) didn't hate each other like they do now.

 

I hope I'm not derailing too much, but had to point this out.

 

My heart goes out to all the families of the 9/11 attacks' victims. There's just so much injustice in the world, and this was one side of it!

There it is, great post. It is easy for the media to say that the lives of the Iraqis were improved, but then again they can make up any bullshit lie and call it fact.

Again I'll say, the only reason the Taliban exists in the first place is because of the United States, please read The War on Freedom by Nafeez Ahmed because he goes into great detail about how the CIA implemented these groups there in the first place in response to Russia. Or we could keep arguing about nothing...

I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
12 September 2011
7.29pm
mr. Sun king coming together
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Look, Iraq was a mistake. I think everyone thinks so. But Iraq was important in one way; it got rid of a heinous dictator. The Libyan No-Fly Zone is important for the same reason.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
13 September 2011
12.31pm
An unidentified flying cupcake
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mr. Sun king coming together said:

Look, Iraq was a mistake. I think everyone thinks so. But Iraq was important in one way; it got rid of a heinous dictator. The Libyan No-Fly Zone is important for the same reason.

I hope I won't be hated and thrown out soon :) but again I find myself compelled to continue this debate.

I so respectfully disagree, Mr. Sun. If Saddam wasn't a pain in neck for Bush, no one would have cared to get rid of him. Why didn't anyone take actions to get rid of Mubarak or Tunis's Bin Ali or the rest of heinous  dictators? Because they haven't - yet- turned into pains in the neck.

 

The well-being of Iraqis and, most importantly, the "establishment of democracy", are never the true motives behind a war.

So, the way I see it, the war on Iraq was a mistake. Full stop.

 

As we speak now, many many Syrians who stand so firmly against the current regime, are also opposed to the implementation of a no-fly zone in their country. So you see, it isn't as simple as it looks, even from an "international law" point-of-view. It is difficult to understand how bad it is when someone else takes control of your country. And I truly hope that no one will live to experience this.

Do I have to keep on talking till I can't go on!
13 September 2011
12.52pm
mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
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Oh, I agree Bush just hated Hussien. That's the be all end all for him. But even with that said, it still gets rid of the heinous dictator, does it not? And the fact Hussien is gone is good for the Iraqi people.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
13 September 2011
12.58pm
An unidentified flying cupcake
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Not when it gave them something worse to fear and worry about - sectarian extremism.

Do I have to keep on talking till I can't go on!
13 September 2011
8.24pm
Zig
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An unidentified flying cupcake said:

It is difficult to understand how bad it is when someone else takes control of your country. And I truly hope that no one will live to experience this.

God spare us the day. Great posts from your perspective, ufc.

As for me, I watched none of the remembrance broadcasts over the past weekend. I simply do not need to live through it again to remember it. On the morning it happened, I was preparing for my radio show. The first plane hit about 15 minutes before I was supposed to go on air. My news man and I were the only ones at the station (it was just 5:45am in Phoenix) and we were watching in horror as the events unfolded and the news services were releasing story after story (mostly erroneous) as everyone was trying to get a grip on what was happening. Finally I called our Program Director and woke him up to tell him what was happening. He thought I was joking. I finally screamed at him "turn on your f***ing TV!" We decided to bag our regular programming and aired the network news instead. From that point I was responsible for breaking in with local news every 20 minutes. In between broadcasts I was watching, typing, crying - then had to compose myself long enough to read the local news. I was actually on the air as I saw the first tower plunge to the earth. Listening to the tape later on, I could hear myself gasp. It was a very long day.

At home our house was torn apart because we were having new carpet installed the next day. So that night my wife and I sat on the floor of our living room watching a tiny little TV, not letting go of each other and sobbing. At the time, we still smoked. When we would go outside for a cig, it was deathly quiet. The only sound you could hear was the patrol planes from the nearby Air Force Base flying high overhead. It was eerie.

My heart goes out to all of those who were affected directly by this. 

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, Let it roll for all its worth.

Every Little Thing you buy from Amazon or iTunes will help the Beatles Bible if you use these links: Amazon | iTunes

13 September 2011
11.48pm
Into the Sky with Diamonds
New York
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I was in NY. You could smell the acrid smoke through the entire day...

In a spiritual way, that smoke has never gone.

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)
14 September 2011
11.16pm
GniknuS
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35 Reasons to Question the Official Story of 9/11

This podcast is way too important not to share. There are too many unanswered questions to let another anniversary go by without investigating the events, so I hope someone will check out this incredible piece of media because we need more voices in the call for a new investigation. It's inarguable that the 9/11 Commission Report was a failure, the commissioners have admitted this themselves, so there's no crazy conspiracy theories located within the podcast. Just facts that have largely been ignored up to this point.

I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
15 September 2011
12.01am
meanmistermustard
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I'll give it a listen tomorrow as im going to be walking a lot.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
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