US & UK Question | Fab Forum

Introducing the inaugural Fab Forum February Fundraiser! Click here for more details.

Please consider registering
Guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 4 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
US & UK Question
No permission to create posts
8 June 2012
1.28pm
Avatar
The Walrus
Working for the national health
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 1036
Member Since:
4 December 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

In the UK, singles could not be included on an album for a year after they had been release. There was no such problem in the US.

Also, It's Only Love and I've Just Seen A Face were displaced from Help! to Rubber Soul by the inclusion of various instrumentals. This created unintended coherence (It's Only Love, Girl, I'm Looking Through You) which inspired Brian Wilson to create Pet Sounds.

And I neeeeeeeeed her all the time
8 June 2012
1.40pm
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Moderator



Forum Posts: 17114
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

They signed with Swan and Vee Jay, two small US labels, but the singles didnt do a lot if anything until after I Want To Hold Your Hand hit #1 and everything exploded. One reason for the failure was that Swan and Vee Jay didnt have and didnt put the finance into promoting the songs.

Capitol was always the target, one reason being that Capitol was linked to EMI (i think owned but could be wrong) and parlophon another that it was a big US label. However Capitol didnt believe The Beatles would make a dent in the market place, and with good reason since every band and artist from the UK before had either had no impact at all or had 1 or 2 minor hits and then fallen away (She Loves You was shown in the Jack Parr show in November(?) 1963 and the comments by the reporter were more in a jokey manner, but there is also this report on CBS which is a journalistic look into the Beatles impact in the UK).

The pressure was mounting in the US for the Beatles to come over because of how much impact they were making in the UK, Sweden and in other parts around the world, Capitol couldnt refuse to take them on. In the end Capitol spent a fortune in promotion for the beatles arrival but by then American teens had caught on, IWTHYH was massive, and they couldnt be ignored any longer.

One additon to Sun Kings reply was that UK lps had 14 songs whereas the US albums only had 11 or 12 for all the reasons sunking said. Capitol wouldnt change their policy for a  uk artist. In the beginning George Martin would send over songs to the US in advance of the UK release so that albums could be compiled and released ( I Call Your Name and Long Tall Sally for The Beatles Second Album being one example). However by the time their contract with EMI was up for renewal in late '66 The Beatles detested how their albums were being treated and so insisted that all subsequent releases would be identical in the UK and US (tho the US Pepper didnt include the Inner Groove and MMT was made into an LP as EPs werent accepted in America).

The Walrus said

In the UK, singles could not be included on an album for a year after they had been release. There was no such problem in the US.

Not so. Love Me and PS I Love You were on Please Please Me which was released 6 months later, Ticket To Ride is on Help!,  Eleanor Rigby and Yellow Submarine were released as a single on the same day Revolver was issued. The Beatles didnt think it was right for fans to buy the single and then get the same songs again on the lp; that was the reason why Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane were not included on Sgt Pepper.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
8 June 2012
5.00pm
Avatar
Into the Sky with Diamonds
New York
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 1535
Member Since:
9 August 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

MMM, good summary.

One little correction to  "The Beatles didnt think it was right for fans to buy the single and then get the same songs again on the lp; that was the reason why Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane were not included on Sgt Pepper":

 

Although it's true that generally speaking "The Beatles didnt think it was right for fans to buy the single and then get the same songs again on the lp," they clearly violated that policy multiple times over. (Or at least EMI did.)

Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane were not included on Sgt Pepper because of the pressure to release something - anything-  in the winter of '67.

By Beatle standards, it had been an eternity since their last release (Revolver, Elearnor Rigby/Yellow Submarine summer '66).

There were multiple rumors that the band had broken up.

Sgt Pepper was in fact originally going to include Penny Lane and Strawberry Fields. If memory serves, the original idea (prior to the birth of the Sgt Pepper concept) was to create songs around their childhood.

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon ‚Äď a history)
8 June 2012
5.48pm
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Moderator



Forum Posts: 17114
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

There is always an exception to the rule, and nothing in Beatle history is straightforward.

 

I have no idea why some singles are on albums and others are not. I suppose because Ticket To Ride is in the film Help! and Cant Buy Me Love is in film AHDN they were naturally going to be on the relevant albums, and the title tracks were always going to be on the albums. 

When the Please Please Me lp was issued in the UK it was standard practice for the singles to be the selling points for the album ("Please Please Me with Love Me Do and 12 others songs"). Thats probably why the singles close side 1 and open side 2, its more than just coincidence that the a & b-sides are bunched together and placed where they are.

For Yellow Submarine & Eleanor Rigby there wasnt anything else in the vaults suitable for release and EMI would have wanted a single to promote the album and vice versa.

 

Something and Come Together were the first songs that were deliberately pulled off an already released album, Allen Klein wanting to get money into Apple; the same reason for the Hey Jude lp being released in the US. 

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
8 June 2012
8.00pm
Avatar
Joe
Pepperland
Admin
Forum Posts: 4390
Member Since:
31 March 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The Capitol/Vee-Jay thing is complex, but the best account is in Bruce Spizer's The Beatles Are Coming!

Vee-Jay had an exclusive licence to release EMI recordings, although Capitol had first refusal in the USA. Capitol weren't interested, except in Canada.

Eventually Vee-Jay's president Ewart Abner got into gambling difficulty and the label was in debt - he 'borrowed' $3-400,000 from the label to cover his losses (the label was doing very well). Vee-Jay couldn't pay their artists, suppliers or pressing plants, and the release of Introducing The Beatles was delayed until January 1964.

Because they hadn't paid royalties on Beatles or Frank Ifield records for some months, in August 1963 Vee-Jay were told to stop manufacturing more records, giving Swan the chance to release She Loves You (Capitol didn't want it). It was a short contract.

Eventually Epstein went to the US to convince Capitol to release The Beatles' records. He talked the company president Alan Livingston into giving I Want To Hold Your Hand a $40,000 promotional push, and the rest you know.

As for the differences in length of albums etc, according to Spizer:

While British pop albums typically had 14 tracks, American LPs normally had 12 songs. The disparity resulted from the different method of calculating song publishing royalities between the two countries. In the US, publishers are paid a mechanical license fee for each song that appears on a record. UNder this system, each song represents an additional cost. In England, song publishers receive a share of the total royalties paid on each album sold. For example, if an LP contains 14 songs, the publishing royalty owed on each song is a fourteenth of the total publishing royalty due from the sale of the album. Because the number of songs included on the disc has no direct cost effect, British record companies can afford to provide a more generous number of songs per album. Thus, for financial reasons, Capitol decided to limit its first Beatles album to the American standard of a dozen selections.

It's a bit dry, but hopefully helpful.

Please don't spoil my day; I'm miles away

Can buy me love! Please consider using these links to support the Beatles Bible: Amazon | iTunes

8 June 2012
10.51pm
Avatar
The Walrus
Working for the national health
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 1036
Member Since:
4 December 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

meanmistermustard said

The Walrus said

In the UK, singles could not be included on an album for a year after they had been release. There was no such problem in the US.

Not so. Love Me and PS I Love You were on Please Please Me which was released 6 months later, Ticket To Ride is on Help!,  Eleanor Rigby and Yellow Submarine were released as a single on the same day Revolver was issued. The Beatles didnt think it was right for fans to buy the single and then get the same songs again on the lp; that was the reason why Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane were not included on Sgt Pepper.

Sorry, to clarify: they couldn't be released in the same calendar year, according to Ian MacDonald. Love Me Do was 1962, so 1963's Please Please Me was fine. This must have been overturned by 1970, as Let It Be was included on... Let It Be, though maybe that was exempted due to the different guitar solos.

And I neeeeeeeeed her all the time
9 June 2012
12.46am
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Moderator



Forum Posts: 17114
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

That still doesnt stand. Ticket To Ride is on the Help lp, both released in 1965; Cant Buy Me Love is on A Hard Days Night (both '64); Yellow Submarine & Eleanor Rigby were released as a double A-side single on the same day as they were included on Revolver lp. Plus there is Help! (the single was released before the album in '65) and A Hard Days Night (both issued on 10th July 1964). 

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
9 June 2012
3.14pm
Avatar
Joe
Pepperland
Admin
Forum Posts: 4390
Member Since:
31 March 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Please don't spoil my day; I'm miles away

Can buy me love! Please consider using these links to support the Beatles Bible: Amazon | iTunes

9 June 2012
5.47pm
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Moderator



Forum Posts: 17114
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Even the guideline of 4 singles a year fell thru after '63, with 3 being the normal tally. In 1966 there was only 1 lp of new material and 2 singles in the UK (with 1 being material included on Revolver), the christmas release being Collection of Oldies but Goldies to keep EMI happy, resulting in only 17 new songs being released (Bad Boy being new to the UK market).

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
Forum Timezone: America/Chicago

Most Users Ever Online: 597

Currently Online:
44 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

meanmistermustard: 17114

Ahhh Girl: 10713

Annadog40: 9675

Zig: 7531

parlance: 7092

mr. Sun king coming together: 6980

Mr. Kite: 6092

Silly Girl: 5720

trcanberra: 5526

Ron Nasty: 4917

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 87

Members: 3328

Moderators: 4

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 3

Forums: 42

Topics: 3814

Posts: 201680

Newest Members:

tomomi, ttn48griff, Beatles007, Edwardo, deandawes

Moderators: Ahhh Girl: 10713, meanmistermustard: 17114, Zig: 7531, Joe: 4390

Administrators: Joe: 4390, Ellie: 3

Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today: None
Upcoming: VeraChuckDave