Log In
Register
Home
Topic RSS
12.43pm
26 March 2012
Offline
paulsbass said
and he contributed mightily to Lucy (keyboard intro, bass)
I was always under the impression he came up with the chorus as well, which in my view makes Lucy a 50-50 songwriting effort. I think because the prevailing theme is more Lennonesque it tends to get lumped into songs he wrote alone.
1.20pm
1 May 2011
Offline
A Taste Of Honey is generally seen as a weak track on Please Please Me. ATOH may have led to some going "what nice boys" but it doesnt make it a good song. Remember that the music charts back in late '62/early '63 was full of dull, corny, bland vocalists who wouldnt have known a back beat if it was played whilst being explained - that was what appealled to the parents whilst the kids were dying for some excitement. A Taste Of Honey is not [quite] in that category but its not much higher.
Till There Was You and And I Love Her both have something about them (George's solo's being excellent on both is one, the solo on TTWY led to some folk wondering if it wasnt really a session player or sample) and did a far greater job of appealing to the mothers etc whilst being good & excellent songs.
Paul wins Pepper, no question.
2.40pm
9 May 2012
Offline
meanmistermustard said
Pauls bass, are you seriously saying A Taste Of Honey is an equal to Twist & Shout?
Long John Silver, some people dont like Lucy, Good Morning, Good Morning or Mr Kite much (tho personally i think they are all better than the Sgt Pepper song, When Im Sixty Four and Lovely Rita & i think Paul wrote the majority of With A Little Help with some help from John but i could be wrong and that isnt any better either), + Paul wrote the middle 8 of ADITL and 'I'd love to turn you on'. Cant remember who came up with the idea of the orchestral noise, tho i think it was Paul. I said Paul based more on that it was his concept and did play a large part in ADITL and the other songs. Not that the concept won him Abbey Road.
unknown said
Long John Silver said
Well I will ask again, aren't the two best tracks on Sgt. Pepper actually Lennon's songs, so how can it be a Paul's album? It was his idea as a concept but I though we are talking here about the songs?Isn't most of A Day in the Life Paul? And yeah this is subjective, but doesn't that include the best part of the whole song?
EDIT: Sorry Mustard, didn't read see you already said that. The orchestra was indeed Paul's idea.
To me personally, Lennon part of A Day in the Life is what makes this song epic, especially his guitar and voice, and that part after Paul's. Also I never heard that the orchestra part was Paul's idea? I know John asked George Martin a sound that will sound like an orgasm, and that's how we got that middle part.
LSD (lol) is primarily written by John, like a lot of their songs they have contribution from other members. Following that logic, than Eleanor Rigby is not only Paul's song but from all Beatles since they all contribute with lyrics, but you will always say it's a Pauls song (which in fact is). That song (LSD) was an anthem of psychodelic era, and probably one of songs that makes Sgt Pepper on the top 10 lists of most influentual albums, as that certainly isn't because of Lovely Rita…
Also Good Morning has great guitar riff, what I don't like about this song is the sound of random animals :/, but without it is actually good song.
3.04pm
26 March 2012
Offline
Long John Silver said
meanmistermustard said
Pauls bass, are you seriously saying A Taste Of Honey is an equal to Twist & Shout?Long John Silver, some people dont like Lucy, Good Morning, Good Morning or Mr Kite much (tho personally i think they are all better than the Sgt Pepper song, When Im Sixty Four and Lovely Rita & i think Paul wrote the majority of With A Little Help with some help from John but i could be wrong and that isnt any better either), + Paul wrote the middle 8 of ADITL and 'I'd love to turn you on'. Cant remember who came up with the idea of the orchestral noise, tho i think it was Paul. I said Paul based more on that it was his concept and did play a large part in ADITL and the other songs. Not that the concept won him Abbey Road.
unknown said
Long John Silver said
Well I will ask again, aren't the two best tracks on Sgt. Pepper actually Lennon's songs, so how can it be a Paul's album? It was his idea as a concept but I though we are talking here about the songs?Isn't most of A Day in the Life Paul? And yeah this is subjective, but doesn't that include the best part of the whole song?
EDIT: Sorry Mustard, didn't read see you already said that. The orchestra was indeed Paul's idea.
To me personally, Lennon part of A Day in the Life is what makes this song epic, especially his guitar and voice, and that part after Paul's. Also I never heard that the orchestra part was Paul's idea? I know John asked George Martin a sound that will sound like an orgasm, and that's how we got that middle part.
LSD (lol) is primarily written by John, like a lot of their songs they have contribution from other members. Following that logic, than Eleanor Rigby is not only Paul's song but from all Beatles since they all contribute with lyrics, but you will always say it's a Pauls song (which in fact is). That song (LSD) was an anthem of psychodelic era, and probably one of songs that makes Sgt Pepper on the top 10 lists of most influentual albums, as that certainly isn't because of Lovely Rita…
I'd argue that the reason Pepper is on those lists is because it was the first concept album, and the first album to take itself seriously as a complete "art form" with linked songs. Not to mention the little details- the "alter ego" band, the audience chatter at the beginning, Ringo being "Billy Shears…" All of that was Paul's idea. Obviously John's songs are fantastic and influential too, but by his own admission John didn't have much to do with the album. It was McCartney's brainchild.
3.24pm
9 May 2012
Offline
Ben Ramon said
Long John Silver said
meanmistermustard said
Pauls bass, are you seriously saying A Taste Of Honey is an equal to Twist & Shout?Long John Silver, some people dont like Lucy, Good Morning, Good Morning or Mr Kite much (tho personally i think they are all better than the Sgt Pepper song, When Im Sixty Four and Lovely Rita & i think Paul wrote the majority of With A Little Help with some help from John but i could be wrong and that isnt any better either), + Paul wrote the middle 8 of ADITL and 'I'd love to turn you on'. Cant remember who came up with the idea of the orchestral noise, tho i think it was Paul. I said Paul based more on that it was his concept and did play a large part in ADITL and the other songs. Not that the concept won him Abbey Road.
unknown said
Long John Silver said
Well I will ask again, aren't the two best tracks on Sgt. Pepper actually Lennon's songs, so how can it be a Paul's album? It was his idea as a concept but I though we are talking here about the songs?Isn't most of A Day in the Life Paul? And yeah this is subjective, but doesn't that include the best part of the whole song?
EDIT: Sorry Mustard, didn't read see you already said that. The orchestra was indeed Paul's idea.
To me personally, Lennon part of A Day in the Life is what makes this song epic, especially his guitar and voice, and that part after Paul's. Also I never heard that the orchestra part was Paul's idea? I know John asked George Martin a sound that will sound like an orgasm, and that's how we got that middle part.
LSD (lol) is primarily written by John, like a lot of their songs they have contribution from other members. Following that logic, than Eleanor Rigby is not only Paul's song but from all Beatles since they all contribute with lyrics, but you will always say it's a Pauls song (which in fact is). That song (LSD) was an anthem of psychodelic era, and probably one of songs that makes Sgt Pepper on the top 10 lists of most influentual albums, as that certainly isn't because of Lovely Rita…
I'd argue that the reason Pepper is on those lists is because it was the first concept album, and the first album to take itself seriously as a complete "art form" with linked songs. Not to mention the little details- the "alter ego" band, the audience chatter at the beginning, Ringo being "Billy Shears…" All of that was Paul's idea. Obviously John's songs are fantastic and influential too, but by his own admission John didn't have much to do with the album. It was McCartney's brainchild.
Yeah I agree about that, but as for the songs IMHO Lennon is what makes it psychedelic, even in Paul's song Lovely Rita and Getting Better (John being the back vocal), and what makes it influential (beside the concept/cover).
4.12pm
12 March 2010
Offline
meanmistermustard said
A Taste Of Honey is generally seen as a weak track on Please Please Me.
Hey, I'm not making a case here for ATOH being one of the best songs on the album, it's definitely one of my own least favourite.
I just don't think it has been seen that weak back then, and it surely was a special Paul solo-spot.
My whole point is still: There is no winner for Please, please me.
4.21pm
1 May 2011
Offline
Sorry but the better songs on Pepper are Johns by a mile, others may have contributed to them but as LJS says each beatle contributed a lot to many other songs. Its George's guitar work which makes And I Love Her into a great song but its still viewed as Pauls.You cant highlight And I Love Her as a great Paul song and then claim Lucy is 50/50 John & Paul at the same time. Ticket To Ride is John's but the drums were Pauls idea.
Also as LJS said when folks look at Pepper Lucy is higher on the list of great songs than WI64, Rita, Fixing A Hole, She's Leaving Home and the others Paul wrote, and Mr Kite is admired for the effects that were created for it.
As for the ADITL crescendo i think John & Paul wanted some amazing noise and then Paul came up with the orchestra idea, Paula also conducted the orchestra alongside George Martin.
4.32pm
12 March 2010
Offline
Long John Silver said
Yeah I agree about that, but as for the songs IMHO Lennon is what makes it psychedelic, even in Paul's song Lovely Rita and Getting Better (John being the back vocal), and what makes it influential (beside the concept/cover).
First, could you please clean out your quotes from ealier quotes' quotes, that'd make your posts a lot easier read. Thanks.
If you agree that the WHOLE ALBUM CONCEPT was Paul's baby and he wrote most of the songs, how can you deny it's "his" album? (Goes without saying that it wouldn't be the same without the others, I still say it…).
Well, what's so psychedelic about LitSwD (recognized that LSD joke all by yourself? Well done!)? The lyrics, of course. But what would they be without the music?
Musically there's the very psychedelic keyboard: Paul.
There's the tamboura bordun which is the DEFINITION of psychedelic: George (didn't play it but came up with it)
Then of course all the strange sounds and alterations: Geoff Emerick, George Martin.
John's own contributions are not that big. He was unhappy in suburbia and the Beatle most under the influence and not that much interested in Pepper at all. He would have laughed in your face and strongly denied the huge part you give him in this, probably being more annoyed than pleased that you thought this was more "his" album.
All or most of Paul's songs have very psychedelic elements (Fixing a hole, Getting better, Lovely Rita), and you surely remember With a little help from my friends getting turned into on of the Woodstock generation's anthems by Joe Cocker.
Damn, I can't believe I'm still discussing this…
Good morning: Yeah, that guitar riff is great, isn't it? Guess who played it.
4.41pm
12 March 2010
Offline
meanmistermustard said
Sorry but the better songs on Pepper are Johns by a mile,
Make that "my favourite" songs and we can all go home happily!
Just one more example:
Sgt. Pepper's might not be the most personal, deep, psychedelic, ground breaking song lyrics or chords wise.
But who would deny it's 1) a great performance (vocals, guitars) and 2) the way the virtual audience "interacts" with the "band" is just pure magic. It's set's the tone for a fantasy trip for the whole album.
And, as I said, Getting better and Fixing a hole are very psychedelic as well, and I personally like them very much, even better than LSD, which is a lot simpler and just overplayed for me (a lot like Obladi, Oblada).
ADITL wouldn't be close to being that groundbreaking if it wasn't for Paul, no question.
And the whole album wouldn't be what it was if it wasn't for the four of them.
There's still absolutely no denying this was mainly a Paul effort.
4.45pm
12 March 2010
Offline
Long John Silver said
Also Good Morning has great guitar riff, what I don't like about this song is the sound of random animals :/, but without it is actually good song.
Yeah, while you check out about who played that fantastic guitar you can also get yourself informed about how the animals were NOT completely randomly put there.
Some say that is one of the best parts of the song.
(I found it funny how "clumsy" the link to the guitar from the reprise sounded on the mono "original", they did a much better job on the stereo version with that).
6.16pm
9 May 2012
Offline
meanmistermustard said
Sorry but the better songs on Pepper are Johns by a mile, others may have contributed to them but as LJS says each beatle contributed a lot to many other songs. Its George's guitar work which makes And I Love Her into a great song but its still viewed as Pauls.You cant highlight And I Love Her as a great Paul song and then claim Lucy is 50/50 John & Paul at the same time. Ticket To Ride is John's but the drums were Pauls idea.
Also as LJS said when folks look at Pepper Lucy is higher on the list of great songs than WI64, Rita, Fixing A Hole, She's Leaving Home and the others Paul wrote, and Mr Kite is admired for the effects that were created for it.
As for the ADITL crescendo i think John & Paul wanted some amazing noise and then Paul came up with the orchestra idea, Paula also conducted the orchestra alongside George Martin.
Finally someone who understands my posts 
.
paulsbass said
First, could you please clean out your quotes from ealier quotes' quotes, that'd make your posts a lot easier read. Thanks.
If you agree that the WHOLE ALBUM CONCEPT was Paul's baby and he wrote most of the songs, how can you deny it's "his" album? (Goes without saying that it wouldn't be the same without the others, I still say it…).
Well, what's so psychedelic about LitSwD (recognized that LSD joke all by yourself? Well done!)? The lyrics, of course. But what would they be without the music?
Musically there's the very psychedelic keyboard: Paul.
There's the tamboura bordun which is the DEFINITION of psychedelic: George (didn't play it but came up with it)
Then of course all the strange sounds and alterations: Geoff Emerick, George Martin.
John's own contributions are not that big. He was unhappy in suburbia and the Beatle most under the influence and not that much interested in Pepper at all. He would have laughed in your face and strongly denied the huge part you give him in this, probably being more annoyed than pleased that you thought this was more "his" album.
All or most of Paul's songs have very psychedelic elements (Fixing a hole, Getting better, Lovely Rita), and you surely remember With a little help from my friends getting turned into on of the Woodstock generation's anthems by Joe Cocker.
Damn, I can't believe I'm still discussing this…
Good morning: Yeah, that guitar riff is great, isn't it? Guess who played it.
Alright, it looks like I offended Paul's fan, and your arrogant comment about me discovering LSD joke and whatnot just shows your frustation that your idol is attacked, there is no need for that. I don't know why but a lot of Paul's "fans" just enjoy bashing the contribution of every other Beatle, like it's 1970.
Those songs (Lovely Rita etc…) have psychedelic elements because of John. Try isolating John and see if it's still a psychedelic song.
As for your argument about "Good Morning", who plays guitar in "While my guitar gently weeps"? Because someone plays the part in the song doesn't mean they "invented the chords" or most of the Beatles guitar riffs would be Georges idea.
As for the animal sound, I stated my personal opinion about that, maybe most of people like it, I don't mind it that much, but I think it would be just fine without it.
6.45pm
1 May 2011
Offline
A telling contribution to Getting Better, highly praised by Paul himself, was Johns "it cant get no worse", sames goes for Johns lyrical contributions to She's Leaving Home. So if we take some of Lucy for Paul can we take some of Getting Better and SLH for John?
This all reminds me of that interviewclip in the I Me Mine book thread, where when George is asked about John taking offense at not getting a mention George replies that he has much more to be upset about when it came to not getting credit in beatles songs.
And can we all be civilised when discussing these matters, there is no reason for people getting irritated, nothing is meant to be taken personal – hopefully. Love is all you need and all that.
7.08pm
10 August 2011
Offline
I agree with meanmistermustard that this seems to be degenerating into mere personal preferences and mud-slinging.
It's clear that with some exceptions, what made the Beatles great was the TEAM effort.
Therefore, to single out one Beatle per album is an automatic recipe for dissing the other three.
Having said all that, on Sgt Pepper, we do at least have the opinion of one Beatle: Lennon.
1) Lennon called it his lazy album (in contradistinction to, say, The White Album, where he was fully invested.) He was wasted on drugs with no direction home, and all his contributions were or could have been written from his bed: Lucy – his son's friend's drawing, Good Morning – from the Kellogg's Corn Flakes box, A Day ITL – a newspaper article, and of course, Mr. Kite – the lyrics lifted from a 19th century poster. [of course, we should all be such geniuses on our lazy days!]
2) Lennon called Sgt Pepper "Paul's baby" or something to that effect.
At least for this one album, doesn't this kinda settle it?
7.12pm
12 March 2010
Offline
Long John Silver said
Alright, it looks like I offended Paul's fan, and your arrogant comment about me discovering LSD joke and whatnot just shows your frustation that your idol is attacked, there is no need for that. I don't know why but a lot of Paul's "fans" just enjoy bashing the contribution of every other Beatle, like it's 1970.
LOL! Thankfully no John fan has EVER bashed Paul in ANY way or someone who was assumed to have attacked John! You're right, I'm sorry, there must be something that seperates a lot of Paul fans from good people.
Seriously, if you care to read my posts I mentioned the effort of ALL FOUR or at least P&J in practically every post in this thread.
It's YOU who's trying to make a desperate and hopeless point about Sgt. Pepper being John's album. It's nice that you're a dedicated John fan, but try to keep your own frustration down and things in perspective.
After all, you probably nailed it in your first post:
but maybe I am too biased
.
Yep, maybe.
Those songs (Lovely Rita etc…) have psychedelic elements because of John. Try isolating John and see if it's still a psychedelic song.
So you think Getting better has another Tamboura bordun because John was so interested in Indian instruments and music?
Try isolating John yourself and elaborate: What psychedelic stuff did John specifically do that made all these songs more psychedelic than they'd be without him?
Seriously, please don't bother.
As for your argument about "Good Morning", who plays guitar in "While my guitar gently weeps"? Because someone plays the part in the song doesn't mean they "invented the chords" or most of the Beatles guitar riffs would be Georges idea.
Is this a rethorical question, because after Good morning I'm not sure you know who's playing it…
Good morning is purely Paul's solo, and it's very much his style (see Taxman). WMGGW is purely Clapton's solo, and it's very much his style.
So, I didn't really get your point, please elaborate.
As for the animal sound, I stated my personal opinion about that, maybe most of people like it, I don't mind it that much, but I think it would be just fine without it.
It's totally ok you don't care for them. I was pointing out that you stated they were "random".
Since you didn't take my friendly advice to get yourself informed let me quote Geoff Emerick from the article on this very site:
John said to me during one of the breaks that he wanted to have the sound of animals escaping and that each successive animal should be capable of frightening or devouring its predecessor! So those are not just random effects, there was actually a lot of thought put into all that.
You're welcome.
And maybe someday I'll be able to be more relaxed about John fans claiming Sgt. Peppers for THEIR idol.
7.24pm
12 March 2010
Offline
For some reason I can't reply to ITSWD's posting.
Very well put, and I should have pulled the brakes earlier.
I was thinking the same about the original thread theme, and I was one of the very few who named several albums with no "winner". I was very careful to point out John's contributions.
Just mentioning that to aviod being considered too biased or Paul-focused myself.
I thought these John quotes were common knowledge, that's why it irritates me when (very few) people say this ridiculous stuff about Pepper.
I guess I should give (especially young) people more benefit of the unknowing.
7.49pm
26 March 2012
Offline
paulsbass said
For some reason I can't reply to ITSWD's posting.
Neither can I! It's extremely annoying. Might tell Joe?
I have to agree with Paulsbass in that I believe Paul was the strongest on Sgt Pepper (and this from someone who's had lengthy debates with him about Paul/John stuff before)!But I certainly appreciate that it's impressive the material John came up with for Sgt Pepper, definitely some of his best and most personal and original work released in that period, considering he was in a real mess emotionally and dropping a tab of acid every evening.
8.44pm
12 March 2010
Offline
Ben Ramon said
I certainly appreciate that it's impressive the material John came up with for Sgt Pepper, definitely some of his best and most personal and original work released in that period, considering he was in a real mess emotionally and dropping a tab of acid every evening.
Amen to that.
9.53pm
12 April 2012
Offline
Ben Ramon, you asked why I don't like lennon so much, sorry I didn't answer becuase I gorgot to read your question. It's just that I don't enjoy his songs as much as paul's and george's.
11.04pm
22 May 2012
Offline
All Ringo. Spesh MMT, LIB and AHDN. 
I kid, it would for me go:
PPM: Tie (Best: There's A Place)
WTB: Paul (close. Best: Don't Bother Me, then Hold Me Tight)
AHDN: John (Best: You Can't Do That)
BFS: Paul (Best: Eight Days A Week)
Help: Tie (Best: Ticket to Ride/Yesterday/I Need You)
RS: George (Best: If I Needed Someone)
Revolver: Paul (Best: Here, There and Everywhere)
SPLHCB: Paul (Best: WALHFMF)
MMT: Paul (Best: Penny Lane/I Am The Walrus)
WA: Tie (they're all equally sloppy. Best: While My Guitar Gently Weeps)
YS: John (the other three tracks are AWFUL)
AR: Paul/George (Best: Here Comes The Sun/You Never Give Me Your Money)
LIB: Paul (Best: The Long And Winding Road. No, really! I love it!)
11.05pm
18 December 2011
Offline
Long John Silver said
Well I will ask again, aren't the two best tracks on Sgt. Pepper actually Lennon's songs, so how can it be a Paul's album? It was his idea as a concept but I though we are talking here about the songs?
Not just the songs. The things I were also reviewing and judging were:
- creativy (ideas, concepts)
- who was the driving force at the time this album was recorded?
- which Beatle(s) wrote most songs?
- instruments, vocal performances, style, image etc.
- who did most of the album work?
Most Users Ever Online: 597
Currently Online: Von Bontee, Inner Light, fabfouremily
5 Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
mr. Sun king coming together: 6972
meanmistermustard: 3430
MeanMrsMustard: 2794
Egroeg Evoli: 1528
vonbontee: 1427
Von Bontee: 1370
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 87
Members: 1683
Moderators: 5
Admins: 1
Forum Stats:
Groups: 3
Forums: 33
Topics: 2398
Posts: 73345
Newest Members: fartoons, RIGBY, WilliamCampbell, JQ, Juliana Melo
Moderators: Joe (2702), skye (2295), Ellie (1), Zig (2752), mithveaen (4675)
Administrators: Joe (2702)
